Security Unfiltered Ep 38 - All Things Security

In this episode Derrick and I discuss the Log4j vulnerability, crypto and other topics that we decide to talk about. Hope you enjoy the episode.

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Transcript

00:00.00
Joe
All right second attempt I go man.

00:05.23
Derrick
Yeah Joe what's up man. How's it going.

00:11.19
Joe
It's a bit crazy this. Ah I mean I'm not really affected by this log four J shit. But um I mean there's like you know whole teams at my company that that are directly impacted.

00:25.33
Derrick
Yeah, this thing is ah it's spreading. We just saw that version 1 point 2 a log four j which was originally out of scope became interscope using our application scanner. So all of a sudden.

00:32.85
Joe
So.

00:42.51
Derrick
We got a high detection on it. So now everybody who thought that we were safe just Yesterday now we're scrambling and so yeah, it's ah it's a damn mess man. It's a mess we we can hit look at the scanner. The I ds I mean everywhere right.

00:58.40
Joe
So.

01:00.64
Derrick
Blocking constantly trying to figure out you know whether or not some actually landed in the system and you know it dropped a payload. Yeah yeah, we should get. We should get paid extra during events like this right? just just sanity. Check.

01:13.35
Joe
This is when we earn our paycheck right? I got a friend that thinks that we only earn our paychecks. Maybe 3 to four times a year at most and this is 1 of them.

01:17.70
Derrick
I don't know and I think we earn it every day honestly because damn it.

01:28.99
Derrick
Be yeah, exactly right? you got to figure out what the hell is going on in your environment. The rest of the year because don't nobody document any damn thing. Um, you look at at all these packets all these.

01:30.78
Joe
Ah, yeah, no man I do a lot of work. So.

01:37.69
Joe
Right? right? so.

01:46.58
Derrick
Protocols all these services. Why is that machine talking to that machine so you know we spent a lot of time dealing with false positives. So I think that can you imagine like 99 percent of your job is a false positive and you still come in to work every day.

02:00.88
Joe
Right? But that 1 percent can like get you fired if you misdiagnose it I mean imagine if you misdiagnos you know not being breached by log four j and then you get.

02:02.36
Derrick
And you're ready to go when something actually happens.

02:10.36
Derrick
Well we got.

02:20.50
Joe
Just completely fucked. You get wrecked and.

02:21.59
Derrick
And at that point it's a team. It's you know everybody got a text on me that well I say don't blame me shit we all the team we all got to celebrate when we win exactly.

02:27.57
Joe
That's a resume generating event. We all get fired together. Don't act like I will. Ah.

02:41.40
Derrick
How often were you pattting me on my back when when I was dealing with false positives like you you didn't give a shit about me days. So you know I miss something today. We all human right? That's the thing you know you notice a lot of times is that you know people fall into this. You know we're all human everybody is working hard. We all overworked.

02:44.60
Joe
Ah, right.

03:00.30
Derrick
Yada Yada Yada So cut us some slack right? We're not gonna all be at the top of our game. But then when something actually does happen right? Then all that stuff disappears and it's like no you were supposed to execute and it's like well.

03:03.24
Joe
Right.

03:14.96
Derrick
Did you help me with the tabletops we were bringing you and asking you to participate in when we were asking for extra resources and all that. But yeah you, you're going to. You're gonna end out on the streets after this 1 Ah, they be somebody that they're on to that bus so you got.

03:29.90
Joe
Oh yeah, always you always need a fall guy man like ah I'm sorry to dive into like our azure environment and a shit. Man like ah I'm I'm terrible at at penesting and hacking. But I mean this would make me look like a God like I get in there with ease I'm just in here like guys did no 1 look at this did someone just. Give them an a D account and said go ahead have fun is what the fuck is this.

04:14.78
Derrick
Say do yeah I mean I've been in there hardcore setting up the user risky user sign in condition policies and the the high risk users and I'm looking at all the impossible travel activity I'm like that's our fucking office. Like how long have we been in Azure like why are we getting impossible tribal locations where people are just using the regular vpn. So now I have to go in there and make sure that hey this vpn actually belongs to us. So.

04:35.70
Joe
Ah.

04:46.14
Joe
Right? so.

04:48.94
Derrick
You know and and and but it's it's it's intuitive I would think because like you said I'm very impressed how Microsoft set it up coming from that Microsoft background. You know where everything was on site on-p prem I don't find it very difficult.

05:06.10
Joe
Yeah that's the thing that azure really has going for it is you know everyone grew up on Microsoft everyone learned Microsoft you're probably using a Microsoft pc right now you know. And so they took that user interface that usability of it and put it in the cloud and so like anyone could go into it and I mean they would roughly know what to do you know because you've already been doing it in your on-prem environments. It's just in azure now.

05:41.55
Derrick
Yeah, they're like intune right? because we're we're getting ready to do what in Intune deployment and I had to take training on it and I'm like this is like sccm in group policy like combined like I'm like yeah I know how that works and ah you know I'm like I'm familiar with that I'm like okay I know.

05:43.35
Joe
Just a different console. Yeah.

05:54.17
Joe
Nope.

06:01.00
Derrick
So you can tell they kind of you know, just it' matured the technology and made it more Cloud accessible. And yeah, it's thrust. It's just to me like an extension of that. It's some new elements in it. But yeah I'm like this feels very familiar and it and it was it was It was good to see that you know.

06:13.69
Joe
Yeah.

06:19.31
Derrick
It didn't take long to ramp back up and to feel uncomfortable in that environment.

06:21.71
Joe
Man it gets really difficult when it's like Multi -cloud because you're learning. It's like the same tech with 3 different terminologies and it's all located in different places. Like you're not going to configure your firewall in aws the same place you will in gcp or in azure and there's 3 different competing products and and azure that you can use as a waff well in aws they have a waff but it's complete shit like There's there's so many like nuances that like like at my company I I have a guy that does nothing but aw us like I don't even think he has a log into azure and nor does he want it like he'll straight up tell me I don't care about that like don't give me that. And like I'm the only 1 looking at azure and I have the aws certs I don't have any azure certs and so like I'm like all right what the fuck is this like you know I haven't looked at azure in like two years two three years I'm like all right like. Where the fuck is the conditional access policies at like how do I deploy this for all of our accounts. How do I set up the fucking guardrails like dude, it's so difficult. The learning curve is so high with that. Yeah.

07:46.14
Derrick
Um, there's so many now portals in azure like you have to save like the endpoint security portal then the identity protection portal and then office 3065 admin portal and then azure a d portal.

07:58.36
Joe
You would think and you would think Security Center would include all of that when it doesn't it doesn't.

08:04.40
Derrick
It doesn' it. Yeah, it's a compliance part as a secure. It's like damn man I like I thought that this would be in the menu on the left where I could just go down and click it and get there now. No, you be to save all your favorites. Ah, but yeah.

08:13.40
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

08:21.87
Joe
Dude I'm tempted to go like get some azure searchs now because like I I basically need it like.

08:26.34
Derrick
You do? There's no escap in it I mean I remember like a year and a half ago I was so caught up in aws aws a ws a ws but I told the lady I said get azure right? because I'm like you're familiar with that environment it' Microsoft yada yada yada and.

08:32.76
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

08:45.60
Derrick
The more I kept working in the environment that I'm in now it was like there's no escaping this azure crap I'm like even if I want to do aws all I see is is that either you're in a hybrid or you're going to go all in the cloud and so I need to figure out.

08:50.41
Joe
Yes.

09:00.54
Joe
Yeah.

09:05.51
Derrick
How to actually leverage this stuff because some of it is pretty cool right? Like why is somebody from you know Botswana log it in into your office 3 65 using your you know your cfo's credentials. It's like that should be blocked and you shouldn't have to rely on a networking team to do that.

09:19.50
Joe
Right? if.

09:25.48
Derrick
You can do that right? there in aszure. You can say that only these countries can log in and these countries can't and that solves a lot just right there.

09:29.21
Joe
Right? right? right.

09:35.76
Joe
Yeah I mean it really does but like it's like that learning curve though you know because it's like you don't even know that that sort of stuff even exists for you to like even deploy it. You know like that's that's the hard part.

09:53.55
Derrick
Yeah, yeah.

09:55.91
Joe
It's it's difficult man because like in Aws I well I feel like a lot more companies are just going to azure now because azure they've already got their hooks into every company out there. Everyone has a Microsoft server of sql server. You know. You're all on pcs like don't lie to me and say you have linux like there's I've never seen an org have more than 1 percent of its user base on linux like literally I've never seen it more than 1 percent and as soon as you know azure syncs their hooks into you like oh you want to run sql in the cloud. We'll give you a fifty percent discount if you run sql in the cloud and you don't have to worry about any licensing fees. Oh well, you run sql in the cloud. Well now you have all these windows servers in the cloud and now you know it just accelerates everything like you know walmart I talked to some people over at walmart. And they their infrastructure so they're like 1 hundred percent in Azure basically and I think it was forty eight percent of azure's entire infrastructure like as a whole forty eight percent of azure's entire infrastructure. They own. Yeah that's how big their deployment with azure is like how how insane is that I I won't even know where to start I've been like you'll need to hire Microsoft employees just hire Microsoft employees.

11:14.39
Derrick
It's dedicated to him huh.

11:22.56
Derrick
Yeah, now you.

11:28.40
Derrick
They probably they probably have them right? You know and sometimes to get deals with certain companies. You do do a ah like a onboarding of their previous employees into your environment to support you. So maybe they did work out some stuff like that because like you saying aws right.

11:30.53
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

11:48.16
Derrick
Azure There's already a issue with people who actually don't mind digging into new stuff and learning it. So so now if you're gonna port everything into the cloud. Are you going to actually have the administrators the engineers that actually can support. It can learn can grow can.

11:54.43
Joe
Right.

12:05.51
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

12:07.69
Derrick
Get all of the investment. Um the return on that investment and like like I said it's very difficult just to find people who want to learn a couple of things let alone a whole new platform and so yeah Microsoft they're in. The king situation because they get to say look let's just assume that you already know fifty percent of this because you've been doing a onp prem for 10 years all you have to do is get up to speed on the new terminology the cloud based stuff and look you're rocking androlling whereas with aws. Yeah man it might be a little bit more difficult because you're getting used to their proprietary way of doing things and if they haven't been around as long then it's a little bit more difficult. But yeah I think azures is is about the rock and roll man I mean always new.

12:48.81
Joe
Right. Right.

13:01.29
Derrick
That they were going to eat into the market share but like you just said I think that as more companies say that they are are forced to move into the cloud. They're just going to be like I can barely get these guys to learn what the hell we have on Prem I'm not going to make them learn a completely foreign. You knows.

13:13.46
Joe
Um, yeah.

13:19.56
Joe
Yeah, you know what's crazy is um, just looking at job postings. Why I'm not applying I'm heavy where I'm at I know all those people are gonna be listening to the podcast so they'd be like man this mother fucker but um.

13:19.74
Derrick
Infrastructure.

13:37.84
Joe
You know, just like even just hearing what like what my friends are working with um and and even in their job search. Um I don't think I know anyone that is like solely dedicated to aws or gcp. It's typically always. All azure with a little small mix of aws with the few yeah I don't think I know anyone that is on gcp but like man like it that takes the skill level required to run that show. So much higher like and I mean with the skill level. Obviously you're going to get a whole lot more pay like they aren't paying these people. You know a hundred and fifty k like they're paying them a lot more than that from what I understand but I mean dude.

14:16.34
Derrick
Yeah, yeah.

14:35.24
Joe
You could spend years trying to learn all this shit and then go somewhere else and they're on Aws it's like oh fuck now I gotta start all over like you know because if you're not in these Cloud platforms like every day I mean you're going to lose it.

14:49.92
Derrick
Oh yeah, yeah, you know you remember those? um like those instruction booklets you will get with ah like some technology and it have like 4 different languages and shit like that's what they need for like Cloud stuff like like here's how you do it in azure. But also we're going to cut this into 3 columns to just have the 3 biggest.

14:59.11
Joe
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:07.95
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

15:09.85
Derrick
It's just like this is actually here right? because it's it's all mapping right? It's just like compliance and and different Frameworks you know this might say you do this and they call it this and pci they call it this and iso calls it. This. But it's the same thing a lot of times right? and there might be a very small variable or tweak to it and the the issue is is that like I said I think with Aws you have to jump in dive in.

15:24.90
Joe
No.

15:39.96
Derrick
And you have to immerse yourself. It's kind of like with linux coming from a Microsoft background if your home machine is Microsoft if you work in Microsoft but you're learning in linux the fucking vm and you're dedicating. You know 2 3 hours 2 it a week well that three week stretch where you don't feel like doing a shit.

15:41.50
Joe
I have.

15:58.46
Derrick
Gonna come back and realize that you only remember 25 percent of the shit you learned. So now you're like oh man I got to start all over whereas if you immersed yourself you didn't have any way to run and that's how I feel about aws because unless I'm working in that environment.

16:00.80
Joe
So yeah, yes.

16:16.60
Derrick
Then when I get caught up in a Microsoft quagmire I'm just going to naturally you know be more familiar with Microsoft and that's why to me, it's like I probably would rather just get into azure and then migrate to aws if I'm fortunate slash lucky enough to be somewhere that has a you know? Ah. Ah, more robust deployment of it than just maybe a cluster of service performing some stuff.

16:41.35
Joe
Yeah, it's really difficult man because like just trying to go from like a Multi -cloud approach ah and trying to you know migrate or or have the same compliance frameworks across all of them and you know aw s is calling something. Different than azure and I think I think that's probably where like was it cp cpsms or cspms the the cloud security posture management solutions like lacework like that. That's when those things like really step in that I've been trying to sell pretty hard at my company. It's like look we're in azure and aws right now and you're telling me. We're only going to go more into azure like I need something that I can literally just say I want these controls apply it here. Show me what's wrong. Like and it takes me exactly to where I need to change it I don't want to be digging around in 5 different consoles for azure to get this stuff to work.

17:44.92
Derrick
Yeah orchestration right? It's like I want to see a whole group of servers I want you to let me know I can apply a baseline to it and I want to know all those controls are right there I want to press a button I don't want to be logging in.

17:57.50
Joe
Right.

18:00.57
Derrick
And doing this and doing that and doing that and and that's the 1 thing about Cloud is is that I like it because the orchestration aspect of it is more integrated even though there's still some improvement that can happen from third parties. Ah. The integration and the orchestration is autumn. It's it's all is it's almost like naturally a part of it because that's the whole purpose of moving to the Cloud is being able to spin up be elastic, be dynamic etc whereas when now you move to a hybrid solution like you said, but now you got different interfaces. How are they communicating.

18:20.18
Joe
Right.

18:35.56
Derrick
And how do you chain all of that. How do you control all those beasts right? You're walking 3 giant pit bulls now um and and and and and we're we you know we have some exposure in little bit just in azure because it's mostly over 3 65 but

18:40.36
Joe
Right.

18:54.30
Derrick
Hall Man Zoom Salesforce You know the mobile I there's a whole bunch of apps that they're sitting in the Cloud so you have to be familiar with a w s just because half your surfaces might be and and if you get logins because somebody synced their calendar with a product.

19:05.19
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

19:13.77
Derrick
And you want to know why the hell this ip is trying to you know, connect to your exchange and you realize that oh damn, it's it's 1 of the services that we use right? So you have to learn about their environment just enough so you can say that you know the actually that risky sign. No 1 isn't a risky sign on.

19:17.23
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

19:33.18
Derrick
Somebody is just syncing with some api with you know Amazon works with their exchange and that's why they're getting that ip it's not because somebody hacked anything right.

19:42.00
Joe
Yeah, yeah, man this should ah it's such a headache I just spent the entire day like working on azure shit. Um, and then like oh my god.

19:46.18
Derrick
Um, and.

20:00.58
Joe
You know I just spent the entire day working on azure shit and then um, my manager just last minute is like hey you want to do this change tonight to deploy this network switch I know you've never really done anything with a network but you want to do it like. Ah, like is this a trick question like 1 it's in the middle of the night 2 I've never even heard of the product you just named like let alone logged into the console like what.

20:23.10
Derrick
Ah, this is a test.

20:37.99
Joe
Do I want to lead this change. Yeah.

20:41.79
Derrick
That's that's ah, that's if you successful you're doing it every time going for it.

20:45.16
Joe
I Hope I fail then.

20:48.85
Derrick
Ah, ah oh shit that workss down hey you might would reconsided those.

20:52.10
Joe
Yeah I brought all that shit down. Well who was doing the change. Joe joe's a cloud engineer out. Why was he doing networking shit how no.

20:58.19
Derrick
Yeah, Amen that's it. But yeah, it's like especially last minute stuff you know I'm pretty sure you know you like to be prepared you like to know some kind of idea what to do if something went wrong.

21:15.51
Joe
I Couldn't tell you what would happen if something went wrong I wouldn't know how to recognize it I wouldn't even know if the change is successful.

21:17.40
Derrick
You know.

21:21.60
Derrick
Ah. Yeah, yeah, right is this is it working who the hell do we need the contact to see if this thing is actually working I see lights they're blinking shh.

21:31.95
Joe
Like I know I'm on the fucking network. It seems to be working like yeah play Dude What is this and he's like oh I would be fine I'll be on the call with you. So why don't you just fucking. Do it then like it.

21:47.33
Derrick
Um, ah a.

21:51.50
Joe
You're the guy that deployed it like I know what you want me to do right now. How about you do it and I watch like that would be a better solution like Jesus man. Ah so painful 8 dude.

21:56.77
Derrick
Yeah, exactly you do it I watch I Yeah yeah, say shifting an anxiety over to you.

22:10.59
Joe
So I found out that the C H raised their price again. Let me get let me give you some background so you know I teach courses every once in a while through Hacker you and I'm just a secondary teacher. So I don't really do much.

22:14.66
Derrick
Ah.

22:30.51
Joe
Or these courses right? like the lead kind of determines. What I do ahead of time typically and so like there might be labs that I do or whatever and so the lead someone asked him like hey what are some good searchs to get after we get the security plus and network plus and he. He's like oh I'd go for the c h and he was talking about it and before he could finish I just cut him off I was like look in good conscious I can't allow you to tell them to go after the c h and he's like oh why and I'm like. It's 1500 dollars for the fucking cert 1 who knows what kind of financial situation. These people are in right? could I afford it if I had to yeah but I wouldn't ever spend that kind of money on a cert. Never under any circumstance and 2 what does it give you like what are the skills that is giving you for a fifteen hundred dollars search that the cissp or ccsp is not giving you you know I feel like those are more more valuable. And they're more than half the cost and he's like well you know, actually like I teach boot camps for the c e h and it's no longer 1500 it's 2500 and I'm sitting here like so this doesn't change your opinion.

23:57.32
Derrick
Um, oh shh.

24:05.15
Joe
Of telling these these students that they should go get the fucking C H and he's like it's a great cert like I'm like I Just told everyone I'm like I completely disagree with him and there are so many other certs out there. You can get other than the C H that our pen testing certs and he's like oh well can you name some because I don't know of any that you know offer the same thing as the C H and I literally sent links and listed probably 5 or 7 of them I mean like I sent everything i. I sent the comp to a pen tests plus because that shit will be better because you just need the knowledge and he's like oh you put the penests plus on here I'm like yeah because it's not 2500 dollars and it's teaching the same material as a C h.

24:54.88
Derrick
Um, yeah, right? Great see that the.

25:02.10
Joe
I can't believe that they raised that shit to 2500 when I took it. It was 3 hundred people.

25:08.34
Derrick
I Think that your opinion would change if you became a boot camp instructor and you you let your pockets grow a little bit. It's see how you feel then. So.

25:14.57
Joe
Sir because you get a cutback.

25:21.78
Joe
Oh my God Dude I need to reach out to whatever dumb as set that up and decided it and have them on the podcast I Really want them to justify it to to me I don't care about them justifying it to the audience right.

25:33.70
Derrick
F that.

25:40.73
Joe
They need to justify it to me and if it's justified I'll go get the fuckingsert and then I'll let you know if it's justified.

25:43.89
Derrick
Um, yeah, ex say he need to write a book called the art of the steel.

25:49.86
Joe
Do that that pissed me off so much I I logged off early that day I was like fuck this like 2500

25:58.80
Derrick
I Mean that's wild I mean like yeah I mean we all knew that the C H was always touted as something being between the security plus and the Ssc P Slash Whatever the hell was the next search that you wanted to take.

26:10.28
Joe
Right? What's the sscp like 3 hundred and fifty four hundred bucks. It's not more than the cissp which is like six fifty

26:16.47
Derrick
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah so it it was never more than like ah I would say a level 1 and a half right like level search if security plus was level 1 It was like a stepping stone to like the level 2

26:27.39
Joe
Right.

26:35.92
Derrick
So the here that it's at 2500 either they are teaching you um some very valuable information or that marketing is man off the hook.

26:48.38
Joe
Well I can tell you I could tell you right now that they're not teaching these students anything groundbreaking. They're still teaching outdated tools that aren't used anymore because ah, you know 1 of my good friends that I also mentor. He's in the seat the c h boot camp and he's like I'm not going to use these tools like I know I'm not going to use them like yeah, that's why I told you you need to know everything in the Book. You don't need to know the cert because like yes you need to know that information like you need to know.

27:19.40
Derrick
Yeah.

27:26.60
Joe
You know what Endmap command you should run to get this sort of information right? like you need to know that but you don't need to know the the tool that was created before Endmap and what sort of output that gives you like I I don't know that tool name I don't fucking care I've never heard of it before.

27:27.67
Derrick
Um, right.

27:46.23
Joe
What does it matter. You know it's ah it's fucking that is I I mean I conant I couldn't believe it I'll I'll never teach with that guy again and if he's listening you could you could chat me. Um I don't know what the fuck like I.

28:03.22
Derrick
I mean he might be. You might be a true believer.

28:04.28
Joe
I don't even know man like a true believer in a twenty five hundred dollars cert the oscp all right when you go to pay for the oscp that test 1 is so fucking hard that they force you.

28:13.14
Derrick
Oh yeah, oh yeah.

28:22.52
Joe
To take a course and get a cert before you do the oscp and it's all included in 1 price so you get the first course insert and then you get the oscp course insert for like 1200 dollars you're getting 2 certs for 1 in in in 1200 dollars

28:34.40
Derrick
And then.

28:42.60
Joe
F the cost of the C H and the oscp is the gold standard for pent testing like you get the oscp you go you go work for the and nsa. That's that's where they need you.

28:46.45
Derrick
Yeah, you got hands on keyboard.

28:55.80
Derrick
Yeah, that's that's yeah, it's ah it's a proper. It's a proper value you know proposition and 2500 dollars yeah you're talking about the cost benefit of that is just skewed tremendous with.

29:09.94
Joe
Um, because you know you got to think about it like in terms of what salary will my will I be at once I achieve this certification and I don't know that the c h really like. Makes that reasonable or or makes that like you know more more desirable based on that fact, like you know when I got the ccsp I jumped I jumped like Forty K something like that right? um.

29:43.62
Derrick
The vote.

29:49.39
Joe
So that's a good amount of value right? I spent 56 I spent 8 to twelve months of studying and I got a forty k raise out of it with the ceo you're going to be spending 6 to 8 months like my buddy. He's he's at month six right now.

29:54.27
Derrick
Um, but um.

30:09.25
Joe
Gonna be spending 6 to 8 months starting for this cert that's 2500 dollars you're probably around 75 to ninety k already. What's it going to put you at like 1 Oh five I don't even know.

30:23.14
Derrick
So Let me frame it this way and see you what your opinion is if the a plus back when that was like man it was always like a mcp that you can get that was equivalent if the a plus was 2500 dollars. Would you recommend people to get it if it was. Probably going to increase the likelihood of them being able to get into I T into the high ninety percent whereas without it. It would have been a tremendous struggle.

30:46.68
Joe
So.

30:54.63
Joe
So that's a really good question actually.

31:04.72
Joe
If the a plus was 2500 and you basically needed that to get into it like you weren't getting a job without it or it was like a five percent chance that you were gonna get a job without it. Yeah, um.

31:09.57
Derrick
Um, right.

31:17.57
Derrick
Right.

31:23.45
Joe
I would say it depends on where your pay is right now like if you're a college student and you're coming out. You're making you know fifteen bucks, an hour seventeen bucks an hour like I was um and getting that cert will get you to you know, 50 on up right. Um, that's a considerable jump I would say that that's definitely worth it if it's only going to take you from forty to 50 probably not worth it because with inflation and taxes and everything you lost money in that deal. Um, but if it's going to take you from forty to seventy forty to eighty you know. Even ninety. Um I would say it's worth it.

32:03.81
Derrick
So because I'm wondering and and I don't I don't even know right? I do know that for the security plus it seems like that's not enough anymore to get people so there there's like I said and we talked about this earlier this year I thought I started to believe that that whole idea of.

32:14.86
Joe
Now.

32:23.10
Derrick
Security having a shortage and people can't find people and all that being a fraud um, people were getting gaslit and I still think it's the case even more so now because I think that just like with inflation companies are using it as an excuse to have Skeleton crews.

32:39.63
Joe
Yep.

32:42.91
Derrick
And they're just saying that they can't find somebody because either the people aren't out there or whatever. But I think that there's a lot of people who have the bare minimum to have an opportunity and to get to security and they're not hiring. They're not hiring um and so I think a lot of people trying to get insec securityity are being gas lit.

32:54.13
Joe
Right? right.

33:02.81
Derrick
So I'm wondering if the idea is that security plus plus c e h just because of what you know you know h r don't really know nothing but the whole idea right is is that if you have those 2 it guarantees you entry into security and c e h is saying well this is worth 2500

33:15.92
Joe
M.

33:21.14
Derrick
Because either you're going to complain for a year and a half about not getting a job after a Hundred interviews or you get our sir and you're going to have that job and now you're in security and now you can actually start you know making waves.

33:35.47
Joe
I Guess that makes sense. Um I'm just trying to like come from the perspective of like where I was when I was getting my security plus like I had to borrow money. To get my security plus and that was like 3 hundred bucks. You know like that's how broke I was I didn't I couldn't afford anything. There was several days when I had to choose between lunch and dinner you know and um, like.

33:50.82
Derrick
Um, yeah, yeah, um, right.

34:05.50
Joe
Going going back there if someone told me like get the c h it's 2500 dollars and you'll have a job in ninety days. Um I I couldn't have put together the money if I tried like I would have had zero opportunity to do that. It would have.

34:15.50
Derrick
Yeah.

34:22.50
Joe
If I did do that it would have put me in such a drastic you know financial hardship that I probably wouldn't have recovered for 5 years probably honestly just being honest with it. You know like the cert the cost of the cert.

34:33.67
Derrick
Yeah, yeah, now it doesn't I mean like I said for for folks.

34:41.19
Joe
And the reward of the cert have to line up with where the person is in their career. You know that's the thing like the Ceo I mean the C H would be better if they considered it to be like a more senior level cert like you could almost justify it if it's like.

34:43.77
Derrick
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:59.89
Joe
Ah, you've been in the field for 7 years you want to get into pen testing. This is the next logical step like we already assume you have some advanced knowledge and this is where we're going to put you and the quality of the cert was there you know, but it seems like the quality never changed and the price has gone up.

35:12.44
Derrick
Yeah.

35:18.80
Joe
And the pay scale for that cert also hasn't hasn't changed that drastically I mean I looked into it. It's not like it's not like these people are getting the c h and going from forty to 1 ah hundred and forty.

35:29.31
Derrick
Right? Yeah no I mean I mean looking at it just based off. Ah you know how rational it would be. It makes no sense at all right? but it's kind of like trying to figure out what they're trying to sell or how they're trying to sell it.

35:44.56
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

35:46.21
Derrick
Right? Because from their perspective they have to try to justify it and I'm wondering what is that that they're trying to justify right? and it's like I can see them trying to justify it by you know, saying that hey look you've been looking for a job here's your way to get a job and so how much is that worth to you right.

36:03.92
Joe
Now.

36:06.00
Derrick
And and at that point it's like well yeah, your return on your investment. It's trash but it's like if you want to invest and buy the worst stock in the world who cares now but you but you invested now right? and it's kind of like you have the job so we're going to help you get the job but you know don't don't frame this certification.

36:11.77
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

36:25.55
Derrick
And put it on your new desk and I think you're the shit right? because you're going to get laughed out of that damn office.

36:26.90
Joe
Ah, right right? So the the lead told me that the biggest selling point is that all of the federal agencies and the military like require it now.

36:42.53
Derrick
Yeah.

36:44.88
Joe
They consider it to be a gold standard cert and if you're going into that field then you have to get it and you'll get a higher pay and all this other stuff and my argument was okay who in this class is going into a federal agency or the military like literally. Who in this class wants to go no 1 I'm sitting here like okay so no 1 wants to go into it. So What's the purpose of them getting this. You know right.

37:14.98
Derrick
And that's not even exclusive. There's a list of searchs that the Military endorses right? Yeah so you can swap any of those out. Um, yeah, but I mean I can of yeah you right? That's just like you know.

37:21.75
Joe
Like the cissp Ccsp right.

37:31.69
Joe
That's how they that's how they market it I think that they were the first ones to get accredited by the federal government as like a gold standard sir to get into security and be in an agency and you know you get to. Be in the and nsa and go like you know do some cool stuff but like in reality it's like you know the shit that you learn on the ceo compared to the stuff that they're going to ask you just ask you in the interview is just to. 2 totally different planets like.

38:05.31
Derrick
Yeah agree I mean it's funny I mean because like it's kind of like I hope their expectation wasn't that the C H resembles a skill set that they have to defend against because that probably explain why they can't protect shit. Um, yeah, that's kind of scary isn't it shit No Wonder Solar awareness is rampant. Yeah damn Definitely yeah.

38:25.55
Joe
Yeah god it's so crazy man. It's so crazy. It's just a money grab that's all it is. It's just a money grab that easy counsel like. Man I'm telling you like when I was trying to get into security. You know I like did my research and I'm like okay c h is the next logical route and ec council wanted to force me to go do their boot camp and I was like all right? How much is the boot camp. And can I do this self-study if I try and they're like you can do Itselfud. There's no lock on it but the boot camp is you know better for where you're at because you don't have that much skills at this time and I mean shit I didn't I was like okay how much is the boot camp. It was 1500 dollars.

39:17.31
Derrick
Daniel.

39:19.89
Joe
The boot camp and I'm like guys like I'm broke like like I make 1500 dollars I make like I think I at that time I made eighteen hundred a month like bro. How do you expect me to get 1500 dollars

39:29.74
Derrick
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

39:39.12
Joe
For you like give me 3 years okay you know like shit.

39:45.71
Derrick
That's they got to pinch away for that that that's yeah, that's completely. Yeah.

39:47.51
Joe
As soon as they said that it just sounded like a money grab and then the way that they went after me for like Mead register like the the way that they went after me for it I knew it was a money grab I felt like it was a scam the entire way.

40:03.64
Derrick
Super thirsty on. Oh yeah.

40:06.92
Joe
Yeah, because they I mean they would email me they'd call me at all hours of the day and night they would you know send me promotional emails and all this other shit. Um I asked them to stop several times like like dozens of times and nothing ever changed. And I think I reached out to like some vp of sales and I was like I don't know what fucking lists I'm on get me off of all of your lists right now by the end of the day This person has been emailing me nonstop for years trying to sell me this cert. I'm not in the market for your shitty cert like I literally said this to them and ah they literally only responded with very sorry you're off the list now like like dude fuck you guys like all my God it was dozens of times dozens of times that they would.

40:46.58
Derrick
Get harassment now. Um, yeah.

41:02.96
Joe
That I told them like I'm not interested just leave me alone like.

41:07.23
Derrick
It's kind of like what these warranty guys for my um, my my car like shit I I switchs like every week I'm like damn dude you told me that my warrant he was getting ready to expire for 2 years straight like how many day of times are he going to call me about this shit.

41:09.30
Joe
Oh that.

41:19.89
Joe
Right? I just bought a car in they're like your warranty's gonna expire motherfucker this got ten thousand miles of dead like it's got ten thousand miles on what you talking about the war t.

41:24.14
Derrick
Say they pro proactively get you get you ready now. Yeah bad these but less thirsty as hell for the money Man Thirsty is hell.

41:38.90
Joe
Got yeah man, it's crazy. This is crazy man I Just can't believe this shit dude. So like so you're investing in a crypto now right.

41:52.36
Derrick
Well I took some profits because I think some shady stuff is taking place right now because of evergrant. But yes, ah and I'm going to get back in it Trust me I'm looking for a nice bottom to to scoop back up. But.

41:55.65
Joe
Oh.

42:08.42
Joe
Oh we were just there we were. We were really.

42:11.82
Derrick
No I don't think we're there I think we're going to get. We're going to go back in the thirty s ah, yeah, even if it's just for a short amount of time I think that we're going to test 39 k for bit for bitcoin at least I know but um, yeah, because yeah, that's 69 it hit 69

42:20.80
Joe
Man that'll be heartbreaking.

42:30.28
Derrick
And then it dropped all the way back to fifty seven then fifty 2 now fifty 2 is where I thought it was going to go but then once it went to forty seven it was kind of like shit. What's going on. So but yeah I'm a get back here man and you know there there are some projects out there that I'm really a fan of um.

42:34.51
Joe
M.

42:48.17
Joe
I'm barely invested in a bitcoin. It's too expensive for me I know and then there's a whole store of value thing that everyone talks about and everything and I don't I don't disagree I don't disagree. But.

42:48.19
Derrick
But I just needed to bitcoin is the truth. You got to have a whole bitcoin. Um, that's True. It's true.

43:02.73
Derrick
Um.

43:05.32
Joe
When I can buy you know several thousand cardano and cardano might hit you know a thousand dollars in 10 years like hey I'm trying to retire when I can. So.

43:15.23
Derrick
Yeah, you got your store of value and you have your actual investment right? and and and then you got a combination of both you got projects like Sona cardano algorithm um Polygon yeah dot.

43:18.92
Joe
Right? right.

43:27.95
Joe
Did you see that? ah that outage or that hack with Solana good. Did you see what that was. They basically did a ah ddos attack. Um on the network.

43:34.63
Derrick
Sona is always getting touched man because they had yeah they they just always touched.

43:46.59
Joe
By having the nodes having like I think they said like forty eight percent of the nodes or some shit like that was underpowered on the cpu. So you know with this with how their blockchain works. You basically need a very high power cpu.

43:55.75
Derrick
A.

44:03.17
Derrick
Right.

44:05.81
Joe
Because everyone has to validate a transaction because it's proof of history. Everyone has to validate it and and so if you don't have a powerful enough cpu it starts slowing down the network because it has to do more work at a slower rate and ah.

44:08.29
Derrick
Yeah.

44:15.26
Derrick
Evil.

44:22.62
Joe
There's some security researchers out there that are saying like if you don't think that this can happen and then escalate to things like people modifying the blockchain modifying transactions then you just don't know because they're they're like you could do a fifty fifty 1 attack I don't know what that is. Um, but like you could do a bunch of different attacks which actually like you know harm the integrity or lower the integrity of the blockchain and there's actually no way to fix it. There's that there's literally no way to go back and say oh this is what the blockchain was supposed to be because it's processing. Seven thousand transactions a second and so who's to say that this 1 in particular transaction is invalid if it's on the blackchain right? Yeah yeah, that's what it was yeah.

45:08.57
Derrick
You you lost consensus. That's what the fifty fifty 1 you know once you have the majority then you're the majority you have the majority right? And yeah I mean the transaction costs and speed of saw. Um, cause they got ddos earlier this year right because and they had the ability they increased the price of transactions same thing happened with Polygon they had to increase the price of transactions. So the idea is that if transactions are really really affordable. Then what happens is is that you know there are certain attacks that can be done with you flooding.

45:24.92
Joe
Um, yeah.

45:41.63
Joe
So.

45:42.98
Derrick
The network with so many transactions that you can override a block and take advantage of a vulnerability and the only real way to get out of that is to raise the price so much that it doesn't make sense. Economically right to carry out those type of attacks and and that's why you see certain.

45:54.69
Joe
Right.

45:59.63
Derrick
Blockchains increased the the price of a transaction. But yeah Saul has gotten a lot of attention because of the speed and because a lot of people are putting in institutional money into it and yeah.

46:13.75
Joe
isn't isn't cardano like either currently faster or going to be faster than Solana like Solano from what I understand solano's like peak performance for a transaction speed is like 20000 a second or something. And cardano's already doing like that doing that like they actually proved it out and showed actual proof of doing that and some and.

46:39.84
Derrick
So that might be overose um because I know that that's their level. That's their scaling solution for transaction speed I think by default the blockchain for cardano was between 7 and twenty four tps and the idea was is that they was going to increase that transactional speed because even like ethereum right was rated out and like 15 originally um.

46:59.46
Joe
Who.

47:05.55
Joe
Was that like 7 or something right.

47:09.22
Derrick
Yeah, so so the ideas that you do a level a layer 2 or you do you know Rollups zk rollups or they're gonna go to? um you know version 2 point zero which is is going to do sharding which allows the transactions to go higher but I do know that cardano is. They're thinking that with their scaling solution. They can get all most up to I think it is either 1 hundred thousand to a million That's a quote I mean like so like they're hoping it can 1 day get there. But right now they're not at that transaction speed I think that I saw their um white paper was saying that there.

47:32.15
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

47:46.30
Derrick
It was fifty to sixty K tps but they were saying that they can actually go higher than that if you know systems in increase in in power because it was only limited to the amount of power our system was was was it was capable of putting it out so they believe that they can scale up even faster than that.

47:48.11
Joe
So.

47:58.23
Joe
So.

48:05.79
Derrick
But yeah yeah I know cardano has you know they have all the errors you know they went from gogan and then you know, um Shelley to gogan and and now they're trying to you know do their? Um, their the transactional speed upgrade with oral borrows and I think that. Over bor is security um layer for them I have to remember what the name of it it hydra or something like that. Yeah yeah, so hydra is is going to be that. But yeah there if if it works man they're goingnna be pumping out at 1 of the top speeds cardano is but I think it's gonna take.

48:29.91
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

48:40.98
Joe
Right? Yeah, probably will I mean they've been like they've been really slow with everything that they do and you know the founder says like yeah, we're slow because we want to do it secure. We don't want to have problems like so lot.

48:43.77
Derrick
A year and a half at this rate.

48:50.54
Derrick
Um, yeah, yeah.

48:59.55
Joe
And he'll like specifically call out I think that's so funny is like yeah I don't want to have problems like Solana does you know? Ah yeah, it does like weekly talks now on on youtube with the community. That's pretty cool.

49:00.19
Derrick
And that's quickly. Charles is a is is a is a cool cat man.

49:13.50
Derrick
Yes, now he's 1 Yeah, he's 1 of the best um figureheads generally they don't want you to have a figure head because then it makes it looks like your you know seller. Yeah.

49:17.93
Joe
No 1 else does that.

49:27.64
Joe
It's like descent. It's not decentralized or something.

49:30.19
Derrick
Exactly and then also you know if the government wants to come in and say hey you're selling assets and these are stocks slash you know assets like fat because it's like are you issuing out the tokens. You know, do you control all that Um, but ah.

49:35.26
Joe
Right? right.

49:44.58
Joe
Right? right.

49:48.71
Derrick
Yeah I mean that's precise. The point your government go figure out how to get they cut so they go make up anything. But yeah, he's like really 1 of the only ones that um that happen and he takes he takes questions on his channel. Um.

49:52.34
Joe
Right? right.

50:03.97
Derrick
All types of stuff so he's yeah, he's cool man I think he like I said he he probably was the person who got me more comfortable with investing in crypto just as a person I can relate to and was like man. Oh man, he sounds like he's doing something he like he think is cool I can.

50:12.78
Joe
So.

50:21.80
Derrick
I Can I can kind of grasp what he's talking about and use that as my way to get more familiar with this space.

50:25.66
Joe
Yeah, yeah, he um, he'll he'll even like go off on people like someone asked him like when smart contracts gonna be you know involved or or released and he's like.

50:40.77
Derrick
Um, and that whole smart contract thing killed me because people would always ask him and it was like he's like I'm the most transparent.

50:41.10
Joe
If you read a fucking white paper. You'd know it was released in February go read like all right next question.

50:59.67
Derrick
Freaking person in the world about this like you Why you keep asking me about that and then they came and it was like see and now we're moving on to our next you know function Oh big deal Big deal.

50:59.68
Joe
Right? right.

51:08.72
Joe
Right? Yeah man I don't know man I hope ah I hope the shit will like you know change some.

51:23.94
Derrick
It it retire you early.

51:26.95
Joe
Some stuff man. Yeah man I'm getting tired of this working thing.

51:33.76
Derrick
I'm serious I feel you I feel you just just you know the blue chip projects man have a little bit in them in ah D C a it you know hope.

51:39.32
Joe
Yeah, so. Someone told me or not me I heard it on a podcast but he was saying that like the millionaires stop trading time for money and they start like having time work in their favor with money I'm trying to figure out.

51:58.42
Derrick
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

52:02.88
Joe
How to do that you know cause they're now they're not really working a nine to five I mean they work when they need to you know like they they work when when they need to not read or when they want to not when they need to even if.

52:09.30
Derrick
Yeah.

52:16.37
Derrick
Yeah, now that's the that's the ultimate like if you have your money working for you and compounding then you know you're headed again because eventually you will probably be able to afford a minimum lifestyle that you find acceptable.

52:21.57
Joe
And.

52:33.10
Joe
Right? right? Yeah, yeah, lot less trustful I don't need this job. No more.

52:35.90
Derrick
And once that happens you got fuck you money and once you have fuck you money life becomes a lot easier exactly and that's why this whole year I was trying to accumulate fuck you money and I mad bitcoin and hit a hundred k in December because.

52:51.40
Joe
Ah.

52:54.50
Derrick
I had calculated everything for that to be my fuck you money and and once it started going down I'm like making me my profits I'm taking my little profits and I'll get back in said this fuck you are nothing.

53:00.69
Joe
Ah, a hal man.

53:12.50
Joe
Now you got a hold man I've read some book that said that um, the only people that lose money in the market is the people that aren't in the market meaning that like you know over time on average. It goes up and so if on average it goes up.

53:20.97
Derrick
Yes.

53:31.89
Joe
Um, on average like I think they said like between 7 and eight percent. Um, if you just stretch out the timeline. You never move your money you you will you know become rich like you'll become wealthy that way and that's really how you do it like I try to tell my buddy that.

53:35.49
Derrick
Yes.

53:51.79
Joe
And um, he he does like a lot of day trading right? So like he'll go and buy a thousand of something hold it and it's sold like by the end of the week for sure and you know he's he's got like a pretty sizable you know.

53:53.15
Derrick
Okay.

54:00.64
Derrick
Right? okay.

54:09.19
Joe
Um, amount and I'm like how much would it be if you would have just bought bought this stuff and hold you know, just like never got rid of it and he's like all millions and he has like a fraction of that you know he's still playing with a quarter of a million but you know it it would be a lot more.

54:16.89
Derrick
Um, able yeah.

54:26.88
Joe
And he he has a bad habit of doing that like he just he just did it with ah cardano he it's like like it went up 10 cents and he's like guys sell got to sell like dog. This isn't life changing money I'm not going to make you know I'm not going to go like try and make 3 hundred bucks on this thing like this is.

54:35.24
Derrick
Ah fit.

54:44.78
Derrick
I Mean that shit is is fun though I'm not go lie but you you shouldn't okay swing trading. Yeah yeah, yeah, right agreed.

54:45.48
Joe
My retirement right here. I feel like you should have some money right only for day trading and then you should have a much larger bucket like eighty percent just for long-term investments that like if it goes to zero. You literally don't care. You know.

55:04.51
Derrick
Like.

55:06.70
Joe
And you got to have that mentality too I think where like once it it once it's in there. It's not. It's not in your account anymore. Like yeah, it's in your name and everything but you're not, you're not pulling it out unless something catastrophic happens like you know you lose your job and you ate through your savings and your four 1 k and it's like oh shit, you know.

55:22.65
Derrick
Oh yeah.

55:26.30
Joe
Um, but like the amount that I put in there from every paycheck is in an amount that I don't care about. So if I lose it I don't care and then I'm not looking at my balance like oh I put five Grand total into this and.

55:32.29
Derrick
2

55:42.85
Joe
You know I've only made 5500 or something like that right? like that's not the case but just an example you know I'm not I'm not looking at it like that. It's like no I put 2 hundred in 2 weeks ago. That's all that's what I spent it on.

55:52.72
Derrick
Right? Yeah, yeah, that's the smart way to do it if you go Yolo and and you're just trying to catch ah a Wow you know like rebound a Fibo naci retracement. You're like a man this.

56:03.61
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

56:09.24
Derrick
This trend looks like it's going to hit support and then I should at least get you know you know ten twenty percent back and you're banking on that and you know you can you can make that happen that's fine, but it's a lot of stress because those movements aren't predictable.

56:12.31
Joe
Right.

56:27.56
Joe
Yeah, so.

56:28.00
Derrick
It's really chaos and and and when you think that something would hit support and bounce back. A lot of times it does but the time you got money on it. It won't and now you got to have your stop loss in. Did you do a stop loss. Did they try to shake you out.

56:35.75
Joe
Right? right.

56:42.82
Derrick
If they try to shake you out. You'll see bitcoin go sixty five K to fifty 2 k in 1 minute all right? That's what the hell happened and it was like you got stopped out and you lost all your money and it's like you were leveraged. Don't do that? Yeah, you don't do don't do that.

56:47.43
Joe
Man. You could trade on margin to ah Margins so dangerous I'm not I just tell people I'm not smart enough to trade on margin like no way is so I didn't I didn't realize it until my buddy like.

57:01.50
Derrick
But.

57:05.40
Derrick
Um.

57:12.00
Derrick
Okay.

57:12.32
Joe
Took a big loss and you know told me about it I didn't even realize what margin was you're taking out a loan from the exchange and the loan is due at the end of the day. Basically.

57:16.45
Derrick
Okay, yeah, yeah.

57:23.73
Derrick
Yeah, yeah.

57:26.31
Joe
And if you lose that money if you don't put in a stop loss if you lose it all like you're fucked like because they charge you daily interest. It's not It's not monthly interests. It's daily. So. My buddy was literally looking at like he lost Twenty Five K and he had a spent he had to pay them back 3 grand the loan so that he had to pay them back. 3 grand by the end of the day and it was like 3 p m and and.

57:45.86
Derrick
Um, ah yeah.

58:01.81
Joe
He said that the interest alone I think was like 4 hundred dollars four hundred a day that he was going to have to pay so if he literally waited until market opened the next day it would have been 34 hundred insane.

58:04.30
Derrick
Are yeah.

58:12.55
Derrick
Um, yeah, you got to have some big balls and some and some big bank account to mess around with that man hey and that's a lot What it's actually true. It's what a lot of them. Do.

58:18.99
Joe
Yeah, you gotta be playing with someone else's money. So yeah, you don't see no like day trader with their own account being like oh yeah, I'm gonna.

58:30.25
Derrick
Specific. Ah.

58:36.56
Derrick
Yeah, exactly it's not my money.

58:36.95
Joe
Do this on margin. You know that's some people over at the New York Stock Exchange man Crazy I'm glad I got into it though you know because like I get a lot of anxiety around finances. Um, not that I necessarily don't make enough.

58:45.30
Derrick
Ah, manipulating shit.

58:54.68
Derrick
If a.

58:56.94
Joe
But I get anxiety around like you know retirement and what do I need and how do I expect to live and everything like that. Um, and I just feel I don't know I feel a lot better now because I feel like there's opportunity for my money to actually grow.

59:13.21
Derrick
Yeah.

59:15.51
Joe
Um, and transform into something you know and like the 4 1 k is good and all but there's a shit ton of fees and it's it's not as liquid. You know I can't like something happens I can't like dip into my four 1 k I could take out loans against it. But that's a very bad idea of.

59:31.69
Derrick
Right? Yeah and I think with crypto it's for the younger crowd for our age group. It makes more sense because we're we're able to actually grow with it and see that is technology based and I think that makes us more comfortable because we're like.

59:45.50
Joe
Yeah.

59:50.40
Derrick
Well, the stock market has been around for a Hundred plus years and it's been manipulated all up and down so there's old money in there doesn' getting rid of fuck you 3 hundred and and sixty degrees whereas with crypto you're still gonna get fucked but the idea that you can get in at early enough.

59:57.58
Joe
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:09.83
Derrick
And if you don't worry about it in that project is a good project like what an nft or something like that. You just sit. You actually are like oh man at American dream. They always talked about I'm I'm probably going to actually have a chance at getting some of the things that you know these boom was got right.

01:00:13.22
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

01:00:26.95
Joe
Dude like with ah like was she but you knew the guy that put 8 grand into it in June by the end of October it was worth 5 and a half billion I mean that's for forever generational changing money.

01:00:28.72
Derrick
A okay.

01:00:38.56
Derrick
That's crazy.

01:00:42.21
Derrick
Yeah, yeah, oh.

01:00:44.31
Joe
Forever It it doesn't matter how far down the line you go if he just takes half of it invests it. You know, maybe lets him a money manager you know handle some of it I mean that's forever.

01:00:54.25
Derrick
Yeah, or if you could put the shit you could put the shit in s and P or V O or Vti right? and and and just yeah, get a dividend.

01:01:01.56
Joe
Just give five six percent interest but six percent interest on ah on 5 billion dollars.

01:01:09.66
Derrick
Um, I think you go you know I think you're going to be okay.

01:01:17.26
Joe
Man Dude, That's just so insane and then the problem with crypto would be all right? Like how do you actually get that money because I feel like I feel like you know coinbase. For instance.

01:01:32.19
Derrick
But he.

01:01:35.33
Joe
Wouldn't just be like yeah here's five billion dollars they would probably be like no, you have to put it into this. You know if you really want to do it. You have to put it into this stablecoin. Hopefully the stablecoin doesn't crash overnight and then um, you know you can withdraw it like you know.

01:01:46.95
Derrick
Right.

01:01:55.14
Joe
30 million at a time every month or something like that you know like there's probably a cap for.

01:01:56.81
Derrick
With that kind of money. It's yeah football for that kind of amount. It's probably some kind of system set up. Yeah, right? Yeah yeah, right.

01:02:02.40
Joe
Because they have to have the liquidity on hand for other people that want to cash out at a hundred million. You know so they can't give you everything and.

01:02:15.59
Derrick
Right? But it's become. It's a taxable event the moment that you convert it from sheba to anything.

01:02:20.79
Joe
Dude I looked I looked at the fucking taxes on crypto and it's forty if you get life changing money. It's forty percent and there's no way to get out of it.

01:02:28.56
Derrick
Oh yeah, you you're paying the top. Yep, you're paying a very top bracket. Well unless you sell a certain amount 1 year then the next year then the next year but then again it gave crash to zero. So yeah, you go just take the tax hit.

01:02:40.10
Joe
Right? I ain't trying to play with that man.

01:02:46.92
Derrick
But it's better to take the tax head than it is not to make any damn profits. So get your profits pay your taxes because that's what I might had to do I mean I know I know damn it.

01:02:50.44
Joe
Man I hate the taxes. Some bullshit. We're about to go into tax season I had to buy a fuck ton of electronics to off such some taxes that I'd have to pay I had to do it again. Man second year in row some bullshit.

01:03:04.23
Derrick
Yeah.

01:03:09.18
Derrick
Oh okay I got we got what 15 I got to do some stuff because um, with the four 1 k this year with the backdoor roth they uses that they use that as a.

01:03:23.65
Joe
Oh.

01:03:27.96
Derrick
When you do a backdoor roth. They actually count that as income for that year now so if you made a hundred k and you do a backdoor row. They're going to say you made 1 hundred and 6 right? Um, and so you have to you have to account for that.

01:03:42.44
Joe
Man.

01:03:46.92
Derrick
Um, and then you get a deduction though for you know going into the four 1 k so that should help a little bit but then with crypto stuff you know it's kind of like okay, yeah, they're about to get me. They're going to get me.

01:03:58.10
Joe
You know you would think with all the taxes that we pay that like it would be different. You know there would be free education. There would be no no starvation. There'd be housing.

01:04:04.23
Derrick
Um, get people.

01:04:15.97
Joe
Free housing for the homeless like I wouldn't be busing my ah fucking rim on ah on a pothole in Chicago you know like with all the taxes that that I pay I mean I pay every cent and it's astronomical. It's astronomical.

01:04:22.82
Derrick
Um, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yep, yeah, it's it's I keep saying to myself like hey with this whole Covid Stuff. You guys. Want people to work.

01:04:35.16
Joe
It's insane.

01:04:45.65
Derrick
So you want people to get these boosters these vaccines and so if the idea is that if people are afraid or worried about their health then the health care would probably be the easiest way to get everybody on board because if you say hey get the vaccine you get free health care I think everybody gets the vaccine.

01:05:01.26
Joe
Right.

01:05:03.19
Derrick
Because at and at a certain point. It just becomes worth it right? and they can trust it more because if you're willing to take on that burden of taking care of them health wise then why would you give them something that'll fuck em up and and and they do so.

01:05:07.68
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

01:05:15.10
Joe
Yeah, yeah, they they definitely do over history and I was getting reamed out by people being like.

01:05:22.88
Derrick
I.

01:05:28.50
Joe
Oh you really think that you know this vaccine is going to cause like something down the line or whatever like that's just a conspiracy I'm like it's not really a conspiracy like I I literally know for a fact just working with the federal government that.

01:05:42.83
Derrick
Um, oh yeah, right? yeah.

01:05:45.85
Joe
Anything that they do in twelve months is fucked up. It is it. This is coming from someone that's actually vaccinated right is kind of did it against my will because I had to go to Hawaii against my will and they they required it and then of course 2 weeks later they removed it and um.

01:06:01.20
Derrick
Okay.

01:06:05.68
Joe
But you know it's just like I'm a security guy like I question everything I literally don't care what it is where it comes from I question everything My doctor gets annoyed with me because you know he'll be like oh I'm I'm going to put you on this medication or wherever I'm like.

01:06:09.80
Derrick
Exactly.

01:06:24.38
Joe
Something else we can do you know I I don't care about no pill like if it's my diet tell me it's my diet if if it's like you need to go run more tell me I need to go run more. Not give me some pill to fix something because my diet is poor. No.

01:06:25.77
Derrick
That's it.

01:06:33.48
Derrick
Yeah, yeah.

01:06:40.00
Derrick
exactly exactly yep exactly I mean I I caught the triple vaccine so I had to booster and when I got the booster which was in October I immediately came down with symptoms um palpitations.

01:06:42.37
Joe
Tell me how to fix my diet.

01:06:48.37
Joe
So.

01:06:54.96
Joe
Man.

01:06:59.12
Derrick
Heart rate. Ah chest pain I thought I have my own Carditis and I'm still dealing with that with my doctors right? right now right? I'm on I'm under observation. Um, because of all the things that happen with that now I said that look if you guys know that some people are having inflammation.

01:07:05.33
Joe
Then.

01:07:18.66
Derrick
And their heart because of the vaccine. Don't tell me that it's don't tell me that it's better for me to have inflammation from the vaccine than it is from Covid don't say that and don't hide it because the problem is is that.

01:07:28.32
Joe
Right? right.

01:07:36.15
Derrick
I had to do research for 2 weeks to figure out what the hell was going on with me. But if you guys knew so from the start that certain people were getting myoc carditis or percoditis or information to this or you could have had an fa ready and I could have immediately start taking action and not had additional stress and anxiety.

01:07:38.41
Joe
Right.

01:07:55.43
Derrick
And I would trust it more but the fact that it's like it was being hidden and it was like look. We don't want people to be even more free of taking this. So don't really omit it. It made me say that you know now this this is what the problem I have with it is it's because.

01:07:55.67
Joe
Okay.

01:08:04.30
Joe
Right.

01:08:12.23
Derrick
If you guys were up front and say look man some of you guys are just go have some badass responses and we're here for you. So here's our car and here's who to contact right? I would yeah like a keep it real right? But the fact they like now look.

01:08:19.74
Joe
So we all might die from this? yeah.

01:08:29.27
Derrick
Just be glad it wasn't Covid Covid would have fucked you up even more. It's like oh man for that bullshit I don't want to hear that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah exactly it's like it.

01:08:30.38
Joe
He yeah and they use the the side effects of the vaccine be like see Covid would have fucked you up, You're welcome. You're welcome for that swollen Heart You know.

01:08:48.66
Derrick
I I guess you ain't quit that job. You hate you need the insurance like that Joe as I know this.

01:08:48.85
Joe
See what a fuck you Ah, right, right? right? Yeah as it's so crazy like I haven't got my booster and to be quite honest I probably won't um. I Just don't see the benefit in it for me and you know my doctor even some like yeah you you don't have to get it right now like you're okay, you know, but I feel like they put like over just like over importance on on getting it. Or not I don't want to say the not the right reasons but I would just say like I don't think that the facts warrant the stress that they put on getting the vaccine right? like I've never seen something push so hard ever and right right.

01:09:41.39
Derrick
Yeah, it's like it's like the C H people.

01:09:48.50
Joe
It's like Okay, what's the chances of this thing killing me or leaving me with something that is you know permanent. Whatever that odd is and am I at the at at risk category if if I am then I'm going to go get it right? like then I'm going to go get the vaccine. Because I'm at risk for whatever reason I mean like I grew up with grandparents that had cancer the entire time I knew them they had cancer and so we knew hey if if you got ah if you got a running Nose. You got a cough your throat hurts a little you ain't going to go see your grandparents like end of story. They don't have an immune System. You'll get them sick and they can die from it like this isn't anything different like if they're at risk you just can't you just can't you know like interact with them like you normally would until you get a vaccine and figure that stuff out right? It's just like I don't know.

01:10:44.96
Derrick
Yeah I am to but.

01:10:45.10
Joe
I Just question everything and I mean again I'm vaccinated right? like I'm not sitting here being like all anti-vax like my kids are gonna get vaccinated when I have kids you know like my wife is vaccinated so it's not like I'm Anti-vax I'm.

01:10:55.63
Derrick
Um, yeah.

01:11:02.82
Derrick
Yeah, yeah, just accepting the narrative without actually listening to all the voices right? because? yeah yeah, because it's like you know it's your health right? And if you have the issue if you have an adverse response to it then you got to treat it.

01:11:03.30
Joe
Anti not asking questions.

01:11:09.20
Joe
Yeah I don't accept shit right? right.

01:11:20.16
Joe
Right? right.

01:11:22.20
Derrick
Right? And even if the vaccine had good intentions for everybody and I might talking about the Antivaxis right? I'm just talking about people who don't have the best response to it. We want to know that the next time this happens that we should. We can take something and trust that you know we're gonna you know.

01:11:32.30
Joe
Right.

01:11:40.26
Derrick
Get the support we need. Um and that's it I mean there's this basic just basic.

01:11:43.85
Joe
I was actually pretty nervous when I was gonna get it because ah the flu vaccine fucks me up I mean it. It annihilates me and without the flu vaccine I haven't had the flu and in over a decade. Um.

01:11:52.22
Derrick
A.

01:12:00.98
Joe
And I don't take any precautions or anything like that. But every single time I've ever gotten the flu vaccine I I get the flu and I get it really bad like I'm back in the doctor's office in a week you know and I told my doctor that and he's like.

01:12:08.85
Derrick
Love.

01:12:17.69
Joe
Doesn't really make sense because there's no live virus in that vaccine and I'm like look I I don't know like I'm not a doctor I just know every single time I've ever gotten the flu vaccine I get really sick and I really don't want to take it and they're like okay I'll never. I'll never push it on you then it's like don't worry about it but like why can't you know so like with Covid I was really nervous because you know whenever there's a vaccine. It's just like is this going to annihilate me like that flu vaccine because the flu vaccine isn't supposed to.

01:12:48.82
Derrick
Now l.

01:12:55.24
Joe
But I mean it man I'm out like yeah.

01:12:56.57
Derrick
We all respond differently man all of us and it's and it's really weird how it's even more apparent than I thought it would be because the first 2 vaccines I got I had um had no issues other than arm soreness.

01:13:07.27
Joe
Yeah, yeah.

01:13:12.60
Joe
M.

01:13:15.14
Derrick
And then that third one I got my heart rate went from 95 driving back home to 1 hundred and 30 it stayed there for a hour and a half and I had nonstop palpitations and I'm like what the hell is going on and.

01:13:29.40
Joe
Yeah.

01:13:32.65
Derrick
I'm thinking that you you know I might be at risk I don't want to get this shit I don't want to get you know Tilt by Covid I'm gonna do this booster and the booster kicked my ass man. It kicked my ass.

01:13:35.96
Joe
Yeah, right? This damn thing might kill me.

01:13:46.66
Derrick
And so now I'm sitting here looking at Allacron and seeing these people talking about pells at another booster and I'm like and shit man I don't know it's hard.

01:13:49.49
Joe
Yeah. Yeah man I had zero reaction when I got my vaccine like nothing my arm didn't even hurt. So no, um I know man. Well I'm probably gonna have to call it there.

01:13:59.38
Derrick
Yeah, no nice.

01:14:11.20
Joe
I gotta go work out. Dude I haven't worked out in like a week my fat ass. Yeah man. Well I appreciate you coming on bro.

01:14:12.92
Derrick
Make it happen. Oh yeah, you know it's fun times Good to catch up with you and just shoot the shit.

01:14:24.16
Joe
Yeah I mean at this rate maybe I'll have you on next month because now I only do this like once a month and

01:14:28.83
Derrick
Hey with the amount of events that's taking place between the last 1 you said we have plenty to talk about later.

01:14:35.85
Joe
So cool Man R men see you.